The ABORTION Clinic

*LOL* we did it again...........and yeah, i totally understand what you're saying mel........i dont let myself think about it too much, but i've had a few experiences myself......in fact, i had to ward off a crowd of Right-to-Lifers from going after my friend who was only going into the women's clinic to see if she was pregnant, but they assumed she was there for a termination........it was really bad that day, and i ended up letting another friend of ours go with her when she decided to abort because it was her 4th and she hadnt listened to a word i'd said to her after the first one...........just kept fucking without using anything, at the expense of these poor babies........to me, there's no more selfish act.....anyway......

*G i'm glad you're at least here mel! i miss seeing your name up there http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Firstly, we as a society need to put a much larger amount of money and time into educating teens and adults alike on birth control and the real life day to day consequences (financial and emotional) of an unwanted pregnancy. Preventative measures. Unfortunately, this generally comes down to politics. Secondly, it should ultimately be a womans personal choice. HER decision. She may make this decision with her partner (if they are still in the picture) or family, if she wishes to involve them.

Blanca, reading your story, I had some similar thoughts to you. What a disturbing scene to witness. Thankyou for sharing it. I'm sure it will stay with you for some time. There is no doubt in MY mind, that is too late. I would not, could not do this myself. And, I have no qualms about voicing that. However, no person, lawmaker, doctor, parent, judge, priest, should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body. But, who should draw this line?? Who should play "God"? We give the woman rights, but at a certain point, after so many months, depending on the state, the laws, we take them away. Does this make sense? Bottom line, no one but the woman herself should make the decision for or against an abortion. I would imagine, that it is a heartwrenching choice she makes from deep within her soul whether she is aware of this at the time or not.

As we have seen historically, if abortions are not available and accessible, a woman, if desperate enough, will find other methods which are often life threatening. There have been many deaths from illegal or "back alley" abortions, probably far more than the records indicate. We have seen many states frighteningly about-face at various times both for and against (in terms of having open, legally operating clinics), due to the beliefs and agendas of particular lobbyists.

We women, AND you men, need to educate ourselves and each other, I feel, and take more responsibility for our actions e.g. having sex with little or no protection, and not use abortion as a form of birth control, which also sadly happens all too often. I too have accompanied friends and clients to clinics for the procedure. I have known many women who were merely careless or took a chance, knowing full well the possible consequences, and ultimately been 'lucky' 'or 'unlucky' as far as a resulting pregnancy. Some of us might wish we had done things differently in these circumstances. Hindsight is 20/20.

It should be a personal decision, not a political, religious (what if the woman does not believe in a 'God'?) or societal decision. But in this day and age it has become this, and worse. I could wax poetic on this topic for hours, debate the ethics of abortions, early or late term, till i'm blue in the face, look at the scientific evidence that says at what point the fetus becomes a viable human being, hypothesize and grapple with the issue in terms of my own life. None of this changes the fact, in my mind, of personal choice, and a woman's own body being just that, HER OWN.

My views are heartfelt and mostly well thought out.*s I am the first to admit, however, that I do have some grey areas in my mind also. I am well aware that many do not share this perspective or these opinions. I am always anxious to hear others views on such a painful, complex and personal subject. A never-ending debate.
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Don't forget to VOTE. Be heard.

[This message has been edited by past7 (edited November 05, 2000).]

Oooops! A touch of 'verbal diarrhhea' on my part there http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net/biggrin.gif ..

actually anna, i happen to agree with a lot of what you said.....very well-put, too....

I also believe that a woman has a right to choose what happens to her own body..I also feel abortion is used as a solution to a problem ..or a mistake made by usually grown adults who are too stupid to take the responsibility...Not including rape ..incest..etc...which I have seen enough of in my life...
A few things I have seen..

Walked into a house with four police and another social worker..to remove a baby girl...she was 7 months old lying in a crib kept together with nails that were still sticking out of it...milk so old in her bottle that it was brown...a diaper that was at least on her for 3 days...her toe was black and blue and broken....yet when I picked her up...she didnt cry....she just looked at me...We took her past her mother ..The only person she really knew...she didnt cry...the woman was screaming her head off...the baby was silent...How many children do you know that woudnt cry when you take them away from the only thing they know??...This child at best will have detachment disorder...If a baby dont learn to love and trust in its first few months of life...Its a struggle to get through to them...because she is so young there is hope...
I brought a 6 year old boy to his new foster home...the foster parents were kind and happy to have a child coming to them...the mother came out and hugged him...he backed away and looked at me...I assured him it was ok...as we were all talkin the foster father walked out of the room with fatigues on...the boy went absolutely nuts...he screamed ...he kicked...the amount of fear I seen in this little boys eyes that night shouldnt been seen anywhere..much less a child..See...his "real father" and his uncle would take him hunting...thats where they molested him...the fatigues the father was wearing brought all that back to him...Again this child will grow up to be at best..an angry teenager...
a teenage girl...comes from a family of nine girls...the father molested everyone of them..She got the worse cause she took on the "mother" role her "real mother" never took...she tried to protect her younger sisters from their father...she has a knife mark down her chest...she has scars from cigarettes burned into her back...She has been told since she was born she was useless...this girl is 16..I have known her since she was 14...in those two years I had no less than 15 suicide calls on her behalf...someday she will succeed..she cuts herself...she hurts everyone she comes into contact with...and would kill me in a heart beat if she had the chance cause I prevented her so many times from takin her life...
She wasnt born with that kind of anger...

I guess where im goin with this is..We need to educate..I agree with anna on that... we need to stop the cycle of ignoranace passed on thru the generations...the poverty and the lack of respect for education...

I wonder sometimes if these children would of been better off if they had been aborted...

I have mixed feelings on abortion...I certainly think after 6 months you shouldnt even be permitted to have one...
but I know I feel this..
some woman shouldnt be allowed to reproduce...and I wish there were a way society could control the reasons why women have children but I doubt I will see it while im alive...
I would prefer that woman choose adoption...I know alot of loving parents that cant adopt in this country simply cause there is no children..the waiting list is at least 10 years....
Yet there are abortions on the rise...and abuse is rampant...makes me wonder..*sighs*

first of all let me say this. the only 100% effective method of birth control is abstinence. and so often when the subject of birth control is brought up this in not mentioned. i myself had an unplanned pregnancy. i was on the pill and had been for a year and a half. i took it faithfully every morning. i never missed it. but what no one mentioned to me was that sometimes penecillin can cause the pill to be ineffective. not knowing this (and i was 20) i didn't know to protect myself in other ways and i got pregnant. abortion was nothing more than a fleeting thought for me. i could never have done it. but i also think that the choice should be there for people who "need" it. i also think that if there is even the tiniest chance that the baby could survive outside the mother the abortion should not be allowed. i know of 2 cases in paticular that i am thinking of now. one took place 19 years ago when technology was not as advanced as it is today. this woman (a friend of our family) developed a tear in her uterus due to a previous c-section and began hemorraging. the date was August 18. her baby was not due until Dec. 8. she was rushed to hospital and given an emergency c-section. today that baby is a beautiful healthy 19 year old girl. she weighed 1 pound at birth. another girl ( a friend of mine) was expecting triplets in late october. in july she developed a bacterial infection that would certainly kill her babies if they remained inside. so on July 25 her triplets were delivered by c-section. one of them weighed only 15 ounces. all of them survived and are today healthy 5 year olds. it hurts to think that babies are being aborted at the very stage of pregnancy that all of those babies were born. i can not understand the logic http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif

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Sniff.... Sniff.... Do I Smell a sense of humor??

Abstinence is always an option as is sexual 'pleasuring' not involving intercourse. These options should be part of any sex ed. class. But, realistically, in today's world inundated by a sexxxx drenched media, intense peer pressure, as well as stressors that even I (15yrs ago) did not face as a teen, not to mention both sexes developing earlier, and good old fashioned hormones, it is the statistics and the kids themselves that speak the loudest. We should listen. Teens are "getting it on"... education WITH this is mind is essential I believe.

Sniffer, you say "i also think that the choice should be there for people who "need" it" and "i think that if there is the tiniest chance that the baby could survive outside of the mother the abortion should not be allowed". I find these statements contradictory and troublesome. In 10 or 20 yrs, perhaps (maybe already?) a month old fetus with the aid of superior medical technology, might be kept alive and develop without the 'assistance' of the mother, without her womb. This according to you would mean no abortion should be "allowed" to take place even at this early stage? And, what is your definition of "need"? You also use the word "choice" but I see no choices for a woman and her life, her body, with this line of thinking. Just my reaction to your words. Nothing personal. *s

Heidi, those are some vivid, depressing scenes/images you've witnessed and described....I too wish we could somehow screen prospective parents and sterilize a few while we're at it. *s (j/k kinda)
Once again *broken record* education.. parenting classes BEFORE the child enters their life is so helpful. We can't really control what they choose to do in terms of having children, but, we can help empower new parents, teach coping skills, teach them an elemental respect for this little being, a consideration that for whatever reason does not come naturally to many.

Adoption? I have read and unfortunately it would make sense, that there is a much higher demand for, and lower 'supply' of healthy white infants, which leads to all sorts of illegal activities, and turns children into commodities. Truly horrifying. At the same time, infants from the minority groups wait and wait.. and wait for permanent homes. What does this say about our society?....

Interesting that no men have yet posted on this thread... http://smilecwm.tripod.com/net/slant.gif

I will applaud the first to do so... and it has to be more than *posts* *G

Past..You joke about sterilizing women...After seeing what I have seen..I would be all for that if we could prove without a shadow of a doubt they were unfit parents...or were goin to be...I had women look me in the face and tell me they didnt want the kids they have...this with children standing beside them...
I kinda sit on the fence on the abortion thing...I like to think of myself as pro choice..
I am first and foremost a child advocate...which gives me mixed feelings on the abortion thing..
Having never been pregnant myself..and feeling right now that children arent goin to be a part of my near future..If I were to get pregnant..would abortion cross my mind?..I doubt it..but you just never know...

On education...because it cant be stressed enough...the system needs to concentrate on educating children...Some people think that eduction starts at home..Well I tend to agree..but alot of parents either are not educated themselves or dont feel comfortable "goin there" with their kids...

Teens are sexually active...I have seen it as young as 12...*shudders*
I just wanted to say one more thing about the abuse..I know this thread isnt about that..but if you will indulge me..*G*
If you see abuse...tell someone...You dont have to give your name..just the address and if you can the people's name of where you saw the abuse...
If you dont speak for the children being abused...who will?
I have walked up to parents in a mall grabbing their kids...I have approached women who leave their kids in cars while they shop..Im not askin you to go to this extreme....but a simple phone call could save a life...
*L*..I sound like a billboard...Ok Im done for now..*G*

I know I have brought a touchy issue to the board.....and I applaud everyone, for having the confidence to state their views and support them. I really needed to hear all of this....it is helping me understand different perspectives, when something so intense happens in my life , I tend to analyze and analyze until I am so confused I have lost my whole point. I am glad I have used this as a channel , into others minds and hearts.......*crying*....thanks everyone for sharing....and I apologize if I have striked painful memories in any of you..


is also waiting for the first male response*